Defy Ventures is one of the few innovative and compassionate organizations that supports currently and formerly incarcerated people in transforming their lives through entrepreneurship. Andrew Glazier, the company’s CEO and president, is a remarkable leader whose bold choices have propelled both him and his business to a highly successful position. His story is inspiring; at a real estate building site, he had his first encounters with formerly incarcerated individuals, which inspired him to want to give back to this community.
PerceptivX admires Andrew and appreciates his contribution to the industry. Below are the highlights of the interview between Andrew and PerceptivX.
PerceptivX (P): How is Defy Ventures enriching lives?
Andrew Glazier (A): Defy Ventures is a national non-profit with a vision to cut recidivism in half by leveraging entrepreneurship to increase economic opportunity and transform lives. Defy’s entrepreneurship, career readiness, and personal development training programs are helping currently and formerly incarcerated people defy the odds in communities and correctional facilities across the country. Because public attitudes toward people with criminal histories affect their chances of success post-incarceration, Defy recruits business executives and leaders as volunteers and as employer partners to shift the conversation. As business leaders begin to see formerly incarcerated people as an untapped talent pool for employment or investment, this changes the landscape of opportunity for this population and creates greater economic opportunity for all. As a national direct service provider, we work both inside and outside of prisons, offering a continuum of care for people from their time in custody through re-entry. Our volunteer events offer a unique connection for the business community to engage positively with the justice system, either in skills-based volunteer service, as a source of talent for fair chance hiring programs, or (hopefully) both. The purpose of our organization is to create pathways for currently and formerly incarcerated people to create productive lives of purpose, and by doing that, to dramatically reduce recidivism and mass incarceration in our country. To do this, we need to engage corporate America in this mission; they are an integral part of the solution. When we engage members of the business community in our programs, we are changing their perceptions of justice-involved individuals and challenging them to overcome fear and become employers. We know that economic opportunity is a prerequisite for people staying out of prison. We also know that this population represents an untapped talent pool that can help solve the talent shortage in America today.
P: What do you see as the biggest strengths of your company right now?
A: We are successfully addressing a significant issue in society today that cuts across social, racial, and economic justice lines; our strength can be seen in our results: <15% recidivism at the 3-year mark, compared to a national average of 39%, an 84% employment rate at 90 days, and more than 175 businesses launched.
P: What are the company’s core values, and how do they come to life?
A: Among our core values, we include: 1. Fair chances: We unlock the potential of each individual we serve by recognizing their capacity for change and growth, their skills and talents, and by advocating for a fair chance for all. 2. We Center Those We Serve: We place those we serve at the center of our work. We honor fair chances, certainly through our daily programmatic work but also in our own hiring. A third of our team is formerly incarcerated, including several program graduates. We center those we serve by asking a simple question when we are confronted with hard decisions: what is best for the people we serve?
For Defy, an inclusive culture is one that includes the people we serve—the people closest to the problem—at all levels of the organization. I’m proud of the fact that over a third of our team is formerly incarcerated and that we have individuals with this lived experience serving in positions at nearly every level of the organization, from our governing board down to our case managers. We also went through an organizational process to develop an equity rationale for our organization and closely examined our internal processes and policies to see where we were falling short. Until that point, I had not considered how things like performance reviews, cross-functional and multi-level working groups, and internal communication were integral to an inclusive culture. Candidly, it’s still very much a work in progress. Building an inclusive culture is not something you can ever really be done with, especially as an organization is growing rapidly, as we are. I think it’s also important to recognize that ideas about what it means to be inclusive are evolving. It’s something that requires regular reflection.
P: To what extent does your company’s culture help or hinder your effectiveness as a leader?
A: In part, because of resource scarcity, our culture is one of people doing what is needed to advance our service and supporting a variety of functions. This can help when we need to solve problems and everyone is willing to jump in to help. It can also be a hindrance as we build our systems and need to establish role clarity and decision rights.
P: Are there any misconceptions about your business that you’d like to address?
A: Because we incorporate entrepreneurship into all of our programs, our reputation tends to be focused on people starting businesses. While this is certainly something that we and our program graduates do in a significant way, the fact is that we are teaching something bigger—entrepreneurial thinking—in service to a larger goal, which is a life of purpose and economic sustainability when they return home from prison. We teach entrepreneurship because it is a transformative context, not because we expect everyone in our program to launch a business! While everyone in our program develops a business concept, the fact is that most do not come home and start a business, and our top-line metrics are employment and staying out of prison. We are as much about career readiness as we are about entrepreneurship, and we know that if we teach people to “think like owners” and be “intrapreneurs,” that is, applying their entrepreneurial talents to supporting enterprise growth as employees, those individuals can be successful if opportunities—fair chances—are extended to them.
P: What would you say were the biggest challenges of your career? How did you overcome them?
A: The single biggest challenge of my career was managing an unplanned and highly disruptive transition of Defy’s founder and former CEO. Upon her departure, I was promoted to the CEO role to manage a massive organizational turnaround that included a liquidity and PR crisis and nearly closed the organization permanently. I had to learn how to be a CEO very quickly. I was able to overcome that challenge and my initial panic response by focusing on our organizational priorities, resisting the paralysis that can come with difficult situations, and rebuilding one step at a time. I also had to learn to manage people and myself through crises and find my inspiration for doing the job. I had to recognize that when it came to raising money, it was far more effective to share a positive vision for the future than telling my sad story about all the existential challenges at hand. I also managed our cash very conservatively! Lastly, I needed to practice what I preach to the men and women in our programs and not lose myself in negativity and anger—in this case, anger at the former leadership of the organization for the actions they had taken. Certainly, I needed to learn from their mistakes and repair the damage they caused as I planned our future, but every moment I spent dwelling on negative emotions was time I wasn’t spending on rebuilding and growing the organization.
P: They say it’s lonely at the top; is this something you experience, and if so, how do you deal with it?
A: Indeed, it is. The higher up you move in an organization, the more the job is about taking responsibility for failures and missteps and the less grace is afforded. Part of dealing with it is learning to give yourself grace and learn from mistakes without falling into a pit of self-doubt. I have found that in particularly difficult times, an executive coach can be helpful. Talking with other CEOs or executive directors can also be a relief at times, as a reminder that you aren’t the only one having challenges! Effective management and leadership are what keep me up all night. As we grow, I worry about how we manage people effectively, develop strong managers and leaders, and build an organizational culture that will best accomplish our mission. We are a people-based organization; we will succeed or fail based on the success of our team, their alignment with our mission and values, and their confidence in their leaders. This is a daily test of my own leadership and management.
P: What is something you like to do outside of work that would surprise people?
A: I like to grow vegetables, especially heirloom tomatoes. There is a certain satisfaction that comes from growing your own food and producing something that tastes better than anything you can get from a market.
P: What advice would you give someone who either wants to become a CEO or is new to a CEO role?
A: There is somewhat of an illusion of control when you are CEO. I think there is an assumption from those who haven’t been in the position that when you are in the position, you are in control. The sooner you realize that your locus of control is pretty limited, the better. I think another piece is that to be successful, you have to be highly adaptive. That old Jack Welch maxim—”What got you here won’t get you there”—has never been truer. Lastly, be curious. I find that when I fail to be curious about why things are happening the way they are (good or bad) or why someone has reached the conclusion they have, I miss important things.
P: What are your long-term growth strategies for the business?
A: Over the next several years, we want to expand to 40 states to dramatically increase the number of people we can serve and the number of businesses we can partner with. Our strategy is centered on our ability to provide a highly impactful program and build deep, localized connections with the business community in the states we serve. As part of our growth strategy, we are also embarking on a project to deliver our in-prison program using tablets, which have a growing role in prison-based education.
